Interview for “Libertadores del Sur”, a game designed by Keith Hafner & Matt Shirley

To immediately jump to the pre-order page of the game on Legion Wargames website go here:

• https://www.legionwargames.com/legion_LIB.html

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Libertadores del Sur is a two-player military simulation wargame of the Southern Theater of the Latin American Wars for Independence, focusing on years 1810-1820. The Patriot player controls the Argentine Ruling Directory forces and various federated and allied forces, while the Royalist player controls Spanish Regular Army, trained Loyalist South American forces and militia units.

This is an operational level simulation with a point to point card driven game system. Each turn represents one year’s campaigning season. The players have a chance to raise and reorganize new forces prior to beginning operations, and reset their sides’ morale. During the Operations phase, players take turns playing cards causing historical events and/or activate forces to move and attack. Operations continue until the player’s run out of cards, or run out of morale. When operations end, the players have a chance to consolidate political control over provinces where they drove out enemy forces, and combat units fall back to controlled areas.

It is common to view Latin America’s Wars for independence within the historical milieu of the French Revolutionary and Napoleonic wars, of which they were a direct political extension. From 1808-1824, Spain was forced to fight in three overseas strategic theaters simultaneously (Peru-Argentina, Venezuela-Colombia, and Mexico) with extremely limited military and economic means. The Peninsula War (1808-1814) forced the Spanish Empire into a Faustian bargain of needing British military power against Napoleon in Europe, at the price of undermining its own imperial political and economic legitimacy through British free trade with its Latin American colonies. The practical impact of this dilemma was to have disastrous economic consequences for Spain’s long-term ability to retain its empire through military force. Libertadores Del Sur is our attempt to depict these struggles at an operational level in the Southern Theater of War.

The game is on pre-order with Legion Wargames and today I have a real pleasure to discuss this title with the team responsible for its design. Enjoy the interview!

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Michal: Please tell us a little about yourself guys. What do you do for a living, what games do you play? Also, what are your roles in the design and publication of the game?

Keith: My name is Keith Hafner, I am a retired U.S. Army Officer who has travelled extensively in Latin American and Africa. I fill the role of the obscure military history guy as part of our team and aid in marketing, such as reaching out to you for this interview. I have master’s degrees in Latin American Area Studies and Military History. Matt Shirley and I met in 2009 while we were both living in Hawaii via the Oahu Boardgamers Meetup group. As we got talking, I noticed that Matt was an avid Napoleonic miniatures wargamer. This led me to discuss my experiences in traveling the South American Campaigns of Simon Bolivar and Jose De San Martin with him and we both agreed that trying to design a board war game on the topic might be interesting. So, more than a decade later, we are still committed to turning this dream into a reality.

We met Juan Carballal online in 2019 via Board Game Geek when we posted the Libertadores Del Sur project on that forum. His being an avid boardgamer from Buenos Aires, Argentina was quite fortuitous for the project. He has been instrumental in helping it reach its full potential.

Juan: My name is Juan Carballal, I’m from Buenos Aires, Argentina. I have a long history with board games, at times as a blogger, reviewer, playtester, designer, developer, publisher, retailer, and always as a devoted hobbyist. I was named Geek of the Week at BGG in December 2011, so there’s the long version of my (early) story, which has kept getting longer ever since. My username there is Pastor Mora by the way.

As a gamer, I dig mostly complex games and innovative mechanisms. As a player, my profile is Explorer. I work in public procurement with the Inter-American Development Bank, so nothing related, unless you see contracts as game rulebooks, but that may be just me. I met the designers on BGG and joined in the development for Libertadores del Sur in early 2019 (you don’t just get to your 31st version of the rules and 22nd version of the Vassal module overnight!)

Michal: Now, as for the game, what inspired “Libertadores del Sur”?

Keith: The idea of creating a wargame out of Latin America’s struggles for independence first came to me in 2006, when I was following in the path of Argentine General José de San Martín’s legendary Army of the Andes’ trek over the Andes Mountains. The sheer scale and majesty of those mountains deeply impressed upon me what San Martin accomplished from a military-logistical perspective in successfully crossing an army over one of the highest mountains in the world.

San Martin’s liberation of Chile was a breath-taking military achievement that easily ranks alongside Hannibal’s crossing of the Alps in its audacity. Outside of Latin America, however, General San Martin’s name and his military exploits are almost unknown. South America’s geographic isolation from the rest of the world, I believe, partially accounts for the relative obscurity of this topic in military history. But I think South America is almost a tabula rasa, when it comes to military history from a larger world perspective, so helping to tell this story interested me greatly.

We initially started with a set piece tactical game on the 1817 Battle of Chacabuco Chile, but that proved to be too small and predictable. The Patriots under San Martin’s leadership enjoyed a 3:1 local superiority. We then tried an 1817 Chilean Campaign, but that also seemed too limited to convey the combat operations that were occurring simultaneously in the entire southern Theater of the war. It was in 2012 when we finally agreed to expand the game into an Operational level to accurately convey the interesting strategic challenges faced by all military factions at the time.

As an example, San Martin’s 1817 campaign to cross the Andes with an Army was a wild gamble that worked, but seen from the perspective of the Buenos Aires Ruling Directory, it was only one theater of war of their trying to invade Bolivia, defend against Portuguese invasions of Uruguay, while also trying to conquer Uruguay and pacify rebellious provinces within Argentina declaring independence, all the while worrying about a Spanish invasion fleet showing up in the Rio de La Plata.

Matt: I’d like to answer questions 1 and 2 together. I served in the U.S. Navy for 20 years as a JAGC (attorney and Commissioned Officer) and then 11 more as a civilian employee. Now, I’m a swimming coach. I’ve been a boardgamer since I was too young to remember and a wargamer and miniature gamer since I was 12. I met Keith while I was working at Pearl Harbor through our boardgaming group. He lent me a book about the Latin American wars of liberation, and I was astounded that the history was so rich (and I knew precious little about it). We agreed instantly it deserved to be portrayed in a game (preferably several).

I had some old friends at the Victory Point Games, notably Lance McMillan, who encouraged us to submit a game proposal. We groped about looking for a subject. Our first attempt was a tactical game on the battle of Chacabuco, which was fine, but a little too generic. Then, we tried a game on the campaign to liberate Chile in 1817-18. Finally, Keith and I agreed that the historical complexities of this entire theater of war required that all the campaigns in modern day Argentina, Chile, Uruguay, Paraguay, and Bolivia be portrayed in order to give the game it’s proper strategic scope. This is the foundation of Libertadores.

We met Juan through an internet discussion group. His interest in and knowledge of the situation was obvious. He had a lot of suggestions, and ultimately offered a substantial revision to the game. We adopted it, and that’s why we list him as the game developer.

Michal: What are the key components of the game?

Matt: As far as components are concerned, this is a standard point to point, card driven game with cardboard pieces. Those who have played the Here I Stand/Virgin Queen series will find familiar mechanics, but Libertadores is a simpler game.

Michal: Can you elaborate a little about the game mechanics?

Matt: Each year of the game (1810-20) has an operations phase and a “year-end” phase. At the start of a year, each player has the chance to play a significant historical event card from a selection of event cards for that year. Then the players take turns playing operations cards to activate a “force”—a leader in command plus any subordinate leaders and combat units.

If the activated force enters a location where enemy units are present, movement stops, and a battle follows. Operations cards are dual use; many have “battle” or “reaction” effects which can be used during your turn, or the other player’s turn. Others have “event” effects, which a player can use for the event instead of activating a force. When both players can’t play any more operations cards, they go to the year-end phase. This includes a step where political control of provinces can change.

Michal: Recently, solitaire games are getting a lot of traction. Are you planning a solo mode to the game?

Matt: We consider the game to be solitaire friendly, but it doesn’t have a separate solitaire system. There is some hidden information in the two-player game; what operations cards does the other sides hold? However, the game flows well with one player controlling both sides.

Juan: Indeed, you can learn the game solo, a good chunk of the playtesting has been done by solo players, and they have reported enjoying it that way also. 2/3 of your opponent’s hand changes every turn so you don’t really know what to expect, so that randomizing effect will keep you from “solving” the best move each turn. But having an opponent that knows the right card to hold on to until the right time, plus the “bluffing” effect of possibly having such a card, really adds to the 2-player dynamic.

Michal: How do players determine victory?

Matt: Establishing political control over provinces. The game can end early if one player has gained control of all contested provinces; this is hard to do. More likely the game ends in 1820, with both sides adding up the number of provinces they control, and the winner has more.

Keith: Establishing Political Control over nine Provinces automatically constitutes winning the game. This is difficult for game play purposes, each player must carefully judge how overextended their logistical and military situation becomes, before seeking decisive battle. Even if one side is victorious, such as the Argentine Patriots expelling the Spanish, the issue of Federal Rebellions complicates the situation. We have purposely designed this historic political reality into the game, counting provinces is easy, controlling them is not. (Note: Even after expelling the Spanish by 1820, Argentina faced decades of civil war to consolidate central power in 1880)

Juan: Another way the game can end is if Buenos Aires, the starting city of the Patriot forces, is taken over by the royalists. This is the main way the game can end before 1820, probably before 1815 I should say.

The Royalists forces are very powerful when the revolution begins, and Patriot and (neutral) Federal forces contest that power. If the revolution can spread and establish its strength, then the Royalists will tend to resist being cornered and the (neutral) Federal forces will act more as a burden to the Patriots, and score for the Royalists in the late game.

Michal: Now, as for “Libertadores del Sur” itself, what makes this game unique?

Matt: The unique aspect of our game is that it’s a 2-player game showing a 3-sided conflict. There are 11 provinces being contested. At various times during the game provinces will declare themselves independent “Federalist” states from both the Spanish Empire and the Patriot government in Buenos Aires. Federalist military forces stay in their own province but will fight either Spanish Royalist or Patriot forces trying to enter. This can lead to wild situations when both Patriots and Royalists have invaded a Federalist province, and either player can use his turn to activate a Federalist force and attack the other side. This was one of Juan’s suggestions, and we like how it reflects the complicated politics of the era.

Keith: During Latin America’s Wars for Independence, Federalism embodied in the League of the Free Peoples (1815-1820) under the leadership of Uruguayan Caudillo José Gervasio Artigas represented political tendencies towards grassroots local autonomy against centralized power comparable to the Articles of Confederation (1781-1789) of the nascent United States of America.

This armed struggle, embodying fundamental philosophical disagreements over the very nature of representative government in a Republic, was replicated in many of the post-independence conflicts experienced throughout Latin America during the 19th Century. This political phenomenon was not exclusive to the Spanish speaking republics of the Western Hemisphere, the Confederate States of America embodied very similar political principles during the American Civil War.

These regionalist political conflicts were only defeated in Argentina in 1876 with the final victory the forces of state Centralization. The complicated interplay of political forces during independence conflicts in Chile, Paraguay, and Uruguay, but most especially Argentina, can best be understood for game play purposes as the equivalent of the United States being forced to fight both its war for independence and secessionist civil war simultaneously.

Matt: There is also the possibility the Portuguese Empire will invade what is now Uruguay or Paraguay from southern Brazil. The play testers said they like our combat system. It’s easy to use while giving distinct roles for line infantry, light infantry, cavalry, and artillery. Both sides have the option to dispatch a “flanking force” at the start of the battle. If/when it arrives, it will be deadly, but there is also a chance it won’t arrive. The operations cards are dual use. Many have a “battle” or “reaction” effect which affects how the battle is fought, or perhaps whether it happens.

Keith: The Portuguese intervention of Luso-Brazilian troops into the conflict during 1811-1812 & 1814-1820 represented the culmination of a long history of predatory opportunism by competing imperial land claims on the southern frontiers of the Spanish and Portuguese Empires. Possession of Banda Oriental (Uruguay) was the cause of three wars between the two empires during the Eighteenth Century alone. Portugal’s desire to define her empire’s southern boundaries on the Rio De La Plata represented her maximalist colonial ambitions at the expense of Royalist Spain.

Initially, any military efforts at Portuguese colonial self-aggrandizement under the guise of aiding their fellow embattled Spanish Royalists always had strong annexationist undercurrents which were held in check by British efforts to keep both parties focused on the anti-French struggle on the Iberian Peninsula (1808-1814). However, the conquest of Montevideo in June 1814 by Argentine Unitarian and Banda Oriental Federalist forces represented a dual ideological threat to the Portuguese Empire by the spread of independence secessionism and the growing political “anarchy” of Artigas inspired Federalism right on their doorstep.

The subsequent spread of civil war between Argentine Unitarian and Artigas & Argentine Federalist forces in the wake of their successful campaign in Banda Oriental only confirmed Portuguese perceptions of their need to decisively intervene in the conflict after 1814. “So, for game play purposes, the Spanish and Portuguese Royalist factions represent competing monarchal absolutisms, that do not make them allies beyond their mutual repugnance of colonial independence and Federalism.

Matt: The player’s ability to take turns during the Operations phase of a year is limited by its “Political Will.” Each time a faction plays a turn, or loses a battle, its political will goes down by one. Both sides start each year with a will of 9. That limits a player’s ability to make a rapid advance along the central route from Buenos Aires to Peru even against no opposition, as General Belgrano discovered.

This shows the logistical difficulties of moving forces in such a large area of operations. Lastly, the game will have both English and Spanish language versions. We are intentionally trying to market it in Latin America and are delighted to have Argentines like Juan and our graphic artist Patricio involved.

Juan: I know many, if not all, of the few operational/strategic games that portray the scenario of the South American Revolutionary Wars. For someone knowledgeable of the history, they seldom portray more than two sides of the struggle, and definitely not as prominently as they historically deserve, and as Libertadores del Sur does. From leader’s bickering, to battlefield tactics, independent provincial forces, insurrection, the native peoples, the control of the seas, the Portuguese, to events back in Europe.

The whole wide scope of these factors makes Libertadores not your usual two player black and white game formula with a map, an OOB and the leaders. There are some of those games you can find, Libertadores is not that. You will get a grasp of the whole complexity of the scenario in a very streamlined set of rules and 2 hours playtime (15 min/year). Plus, the tactical combat is awesome. Positional warfare at its best. Simple, quick, and determined by the player’s choices. As of today, this is hands down the best design there is on this period.

Michal: Who will publish the game and where the players interested in the project can ger the more information?

Matt: It’s currently in the preorder system for Legion Wargames at https://www.legionwargames.com/legion_LIB.html We hope to see it published by the end of 2023.

Those who are interested in these campaigns can learn a great deal from Mike Duncan’s Revolutions podcast, specifically the series on South American liberation at:

• https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_American_wars_of_independence

Michal: What are the future plans for you? Any new designs / games in preparation?

Matt: We are planning a second game based on the campaigns of General Simon Bolivar in modern Venezuela, Colombia, and Ecuador. This will be similar in scale to Libertadores del Sur. We are also considering a third game on the liberation of Peru and Bolivia, but it will be a bit different: possibly with multiple player factions (Spanish Royalists, Royalist Rebels, and the two sets of Patriots consisting of San Martin and Bolivar aligned Patriot forces); But we haven’t yet gone too far into details with this idea.

Keith: The Libertadores series is envisioned by us as a Trilogy covering the Latin American Wars for Independence in South America: 

• Libertadores del Sur: Covering the military Campaigns in Argentina, Chile, Uruguay, and Paraguay.
• Libertadores II: Venezuela, Colombia, and Ecuador
• Libertadores III: Perú and Bolivia

Incidentally we have never met Juan in person but intend to change that upon publication of the first instalment of the Libertadores series. We are planning a trip to Bogota, Colombia to research the second installment of the Libertadores series covering General Simon Bolivar’s military campaigns.

Juan: So, we are not talking about Mexico and Haiti yet? All right, nevermind XD.

Michal: Thank you Guys for this interview and presenting the “Libertadores del Sur”! We will be back with another article, which will, in much more detail, explain the game mechanics and various solutions incorporated in the game. Stay tuned!